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	<title>Comments on: Truth Pirates</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.chewingpixels.com/truth-pirates/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.chewingpixels.com/truth-pirates/</link>
	<description>A website dissecting media, especially videogames, written by a British journalist: includes published videogame reviews and features as well as thinking about morality in and around pixel media.</description>
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		<title>By: Wisq</title>
		<link>http://www.chewingpixels.com/truth-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-34432</link>
		<dc:creator>Wisq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Apr 2009 08:44:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chewingpixels.com/?p=2351#comment-34432</guid>
		<description>Hypocee:  No, correlation is not enough.

The implicit point of citing the study is to say that piracy encourages purchasing.  This is only newsworthy because it runs contrary to the more common belief that piracy takes the place of purchasing, rather than encouraging it.

The former is causation, and would be something interesting if true.  The latter is correlation, and is just more of the same.


John Walker:  I agree to a large extent, with one exception:  I don&#039;t believe the pirates are &quot;telling the truth about how they break the law and why&quot;.  &quot;How&quot;, sure, but not &quot;why&quot;.

Pirates will come up with all kinds of justifications for their piracy -- how the industry is screwing everyone or themselves in particular, how they&#039;d buy it if it were cheaper / it had a sample or demo release, how the company behind it is evil, etc.

In the end, though, you&#039;re getting something for free.  Once you know how to pirate, and how minimal the everyday risks are, the temptation is strong enough that it&#039;s hard to even be honest with yourself about your motivations, let alone with other people.  (Speaking from experience here.)

Granted, pirates lying due to denial is probably better overall than record companies lying due to greed.  But let&#039;s not confuse truth with biased self-justification here.


Clockworks:  The very mention of &quot;the industry&quot; in your comment carries with it the assumption that the current music industry is the only viable music industry.  That&#039;s only true today because their presence chokes out anyone who might compete with them in any major way.

Some artists already find better ways to get music to their fans.  If &quot;the industry&quot; ceases business, it will be the business equivalent of a species going extinct because they can&#039;t keep up with modern changes -- an unfortunate fate, but at least it creates a void in the ecosystem for someone else to fill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hypocee:  No, correlation is not enough.</p>
<p>The implicit point of citing the study is to say that piracy encourages purchasing.  This is only newsworthy because it runs contrary to the more common belief that piracy takes the place of purchasing, rather than encouraging it.</p>
<p>The former is causation, and would be something interesting if true.  The latter is correlation, and is just more of the same.</p>
<p>John Walker:  I agree to a large extent, with one exception:  I don&#8217;t believe the pirates are &#8220;telling the truth about how they break the law and why&#8221;.  &#8220;How&#8221;, sure, but not &#8220;why&#8221;.</p>
<p>Pirates will come up with all kinds of justifications for their piracy &#8212; how the industry is screwing everyone or themselves in particular, how they&#8217;d buy it if it were cheaper / it had a sample or demo release, how the company behind it is evil, etc.</p>
<p>In the end, though, you&#8217;re getting something for free.  Once you know how to pirate, and how minimal the everyday risks are, the temptation is strong enough that it&#8217;s hard to even be honest with yourself about your motivations, let alone with other people.  (Speaking from experience here.)</p>
<p>Granted, pirates lying due to denial is probably better overall than record companies lying due to greed.  But let&#8217;s not confuse truth with biased self-justification here.</p>
<p>Clockworks:  The very mention of &#8220;the industry&#8221; in your comment carries with it the assumption that the current music industry is the only viable music industry.  That&#8217;s only true today because their presence chokes out anyone who might compete with them in any major way.</p>
<p>Some artists already find better ways to get music to their fans.  If &#8220;the industry&#8221; ceases business, it will be the business equivalent of a species going extinct because they can&#8217;t keep up with modern changes &#8212; an unfortunate fate, but at least it creates a void in the ecosystem for someone else to fill.</p>
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		<title>By: Hypocee</title>
		<link>http://www.chewingpixels.com/truth-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-34425</link>
		<dc:creator>Hypocee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Apr 2009 00:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chewingpixels.com/?p=2351#comment-34425</guid>
		<description>The link doesn&#039;t need to be causal; a correlation is plenty. What&#039;s your next point?

Oh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The link doesn&#8217;t need to be causal; a correlation is plenty. What&#8217;s your next point?</p>
<p>Oh.</p>
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		<title>By: Clockworks</title>
		<link>http://www.chewingpixels.com/truth-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-34417</link>
		<dc:creator>Clockworks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 19:56:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chewingpixels.com/?p=2351#comment-34417</guid>
		<description>Great article. But I believe that the entire discussion is currently missing a central point (and if there are any students in the audience, pick up your Kant); Whether a label treats its artists badly or well, ripping off the publisher removes the artists&#039; possibility to sell their music. The industry depends on musicians selling their art to middlemen. And if these middlemen stop seeing a chance to sell to people, business WILL cease. So, from this point of view, even digital Robin Hood-ism harms everyone trying to sell their music. . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article. But I believe that the entire discussion is currently missing a central point (and if there are any students in the audience, pick up your Kant); Whether a label treats its artists badly or well, ripping off the publisher removes the artists&#8217; possibility to sell their music. The industry depends on musicians selling their art to middlemen. And if these middlemen stop seeing a chance to sell to people, business WILL cease. So, from this point of view, even digital Robin Hood-ism harms everyone trying to sell their music. . .</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck P.</title>
		<link>http://www.chewingpixels.com/truth-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-34398</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 15:52:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chewingpixels.com/?p=2351#comment-34398</guid>
		<description>John Walker,

If people only pirated music from the Big 4, maybe your point would resonate more with me. As it is, people pirate music from artists they like, whether those who are signed to the majors (who I agree are often vile and rather anti-artist) or on  small labels that wholly support their bands. And trying to tangentially debate the actions the majors has nothing to do with Simon&#039;s post, which discusses a lack of thoroughness on the part of those who carried this story.

I could question the validity of Simon&#039;s use of &quot;the media&quot; when it&#039;s really a number of newspapers, and not every outlet. There&#039;s no proof that maybe thousands of news organizations chose not to post the story because they had the same qualms Simon does. But his point is still valid, IMHO, since many organizations did run it, and we still don&#039;t know what the original methodology was. (Or at least I don&#039;t, since I can&#039;t read Norwegian.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Walker,</p>
<p>If people only pirated music from the Big 4, maybe your point would resonate more with me. As it is, people pirate music from artists they like, whether those who are signed to the majors (who I agree are often vile and rather anti-artist) or on  small labels that wholly support their bands. And trying to tangentially debate the actions the majors has nothing to do with Simon&#8217;s post, which discusses a lack of thoroughness on the part of those who carried this story.</p>
<p>I could question the validity of Simon&#8217;s use of &#8220;the media&#8221; when it&#8217;s really a number of newspapers, and not every outlet. There&#8217;s no proof that maybe thousands of news organizations chose not to post the story because they had the same qualms Simon does. But his point is still valid, IMHO, since many organizations did run it, and we still don&#8217;t know what the original methodology was. (Or at least I don&#8217;t, since I can&#8217;t read Norwegian.)</p>
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		<title>By: marky</title>
		<link>http://www.chewingpixels.com/truth-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-34397</link>
		<dc:creator>marky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 14:53:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chewingpixels.com/?p=2351#comment-34397</guid>
		<description>I appreciate that your main issue is with the reporting of the study, but this is a timely article about the issue of &#039;free&#039; music: http://drownedinsound.com/in_depth/4136660</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate that your main issue is with the reporting of the study, but this is a timely article about the issue of &#8216;free&#8217; music: <a href="http://drownedinsound.com/in_depth/4136660" rel="nofollow">http://drownedinsound.com/in_depth/4136660</a></p>
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		<title>By: John Walker</title>
		<link>http://www.chewingpixels.com/truth-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-34394</link>
		<dc:creator>John Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 10:10:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chewingpixels.com/?p=2351#comment-34394</guid>
		<description>*becomes easier</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*becomes easier</p>
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		<title>By: John Walker</title>
		<link>http://www.chewingpixels.com/truth-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-34393</link>
		<dc:creator>John Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 10:08:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chewingpixels.com/?p=2351#comment-34393</guid>
		<description>My contention is not who is breaking what laws, but your erroneous claim that the record industry is motivated by the success of its artists.

My point regarding law breaking was merely to highlight that those taking the perceived &quot;middle ground&quot; tend to make enormous assumptions because one side is openly breaking the law. It&#039;s far easier to acknowledge that and therefore move closer toward the Big Four&#039;s territory in response. The problem being, when you investigate the scale of the barely reported law breaking on their side, it gets a little more complicated. And deciphering this complication because easier when you shed the delusion that the industry has any interest whatsoever in their artists&#039; making money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My contention is not who is breaking what laws, but your erroneous claim that the record industry is motivated by the success of its artists.</p>
<p>My point regarding law breaking was merely to highlight that those taking the perceived &#8220;middle ground&#8221; tend to make enormous assumptions because one side is openly breaking the law. It&#8217;s far easier to acknowledge that and therefore move closer toward the Big Four&#8217;s territory in response. The problem being, when you investigate the scale of the barely reported law breaking on their side, it gets a little more complicated. And deciphering this complication because easier when you shed the delusion that the industry has any interest whatsoever in their artists&#8217; making money.</p>
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		<title>By: The Sunday Papers &#124; Rock, Paper, Shotgun</title>
		<link>http://www.chewingpixels.com/truth-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-34392</link>
		<dc:creator>The Sunday Papers &#124; Rock, Paper, Shotgun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 07:59:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chewingpixels.com/?p=2351#comment-34392</guid>
		<description>[...] After the Pirate Bay jail case, news of a report which said that pirates were 10x as likely to buy music as those who don&#8217;t pirate was waved around a lot. Simon Parkin wonders whether in the rush to use it as a flag whether we&#8217;ve actually torn it apart with suff... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] After the Pirate Bay jail case, news of a report which said that pirates were 10x as likely to buy music as those who don&#8217;t pirate was waved around a lot. Simon Parkin wonders whether in the rush to use it as a flag whether we&#8217;ve actually torn it apart with suff&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Parkin</title>
		<link>http://www.chewingpixels.com/truth-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-34339</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Parkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 09:33:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chewingpixels.com/?p=2351#comment-34339</guid>
		<description>John: but both parties are still breaking the law, right? Just because one is up front about it (and I&#039;m not convinced that every pirate&#039;s justification is necessarily the same, by the way) and the other isn&#039;t doesn&#039;t make too much difference here?

My issues with this story are twofold.

1. A claim has been made by a Business School that filesharers buy more music than non-filesharers. This fact has then been reported without any reference to the methodology of the study and in such a way to suggest a causal link between piracy and increased music purchasing (i.e. if you become a pirate you will then start to buy more music) when, as far as I can tell, the study says no such thing.

2. The press has reported the story without talking to the source, referencing the source in any detail or questioning the source. In such a contentious area, where the methodology behind any study&#039;s findings should be rigorously checked (as with the videogame violence studies, where so many bodies have a vested interest), this is frustrating.  

ManaTree: re: change in the music industry. I think this has happened with the Spotify model. Now owning music is largely meaningless to me, be it in solid state or digital format. I have most of the world&#039;s music available to me at the touch of a button: it&#039;s now a question of access, a shift that, in many ways, makes this whole sorry debate totally irrelevant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John: but both parties are still breaking the law, right? Just because one is up front about it (and I&#8217;m not convinced that every pirate&#8217;s justification is necessarily the same, by the way) and the other isn&#8217;t doesn&#8217;t make too much difference here?</p>
<p>My issues with this story are twofold.</p>
<p>1. A claim has been made by a Business School that filesharers buy more music than non-filesharers. This fact has then been reported without any reference to the methodology of the study and in such a way to suggest a causal link between piracy and increased music purchasing (i.e. if you become a pirate you will then start to buy more music) when, as far as I can tell, the study says no such thing.</p>
<p>2. The press has reported the story without talking to the source, referencing the source in any detail or questioning the source. In such a contentious area, where the methodology behind any study&#8217;s findings should be rigorously checked (as with the videogame violence studies, where so many bodies have a vested interest), this is frustrating.  </p>
<p>ManaTree: re: change in the music industry. I think this has happened with the Spotify model. Now owning music is largely meaningless to me, be it in solid state or digital format. I have most of the world&#8217;s music available to me at the touch of a button: it&#8217;s now a question of access, a shift that, in many ways, makes this whole sorry debate totally irrelevant.</p>
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		<title>By: ManaTree</title>
		<link>http://www.chewingpixels.com/truth-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-34332</link>
		<dc:creator>ManaTree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:26:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chewingpixels.com/?p=2351#comment-34332</guid>
		<description>Indeed, you&#039;re right about proof being missing from this whole mess.

However, I don&#039;t think that matters. What&#039;s absolutely needed is a change in the music industry, however that is brought about. As John Walker pointed out, artists are very very frequently ripped off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, you&#8217;re right about proof being missing from this whole mess.</p>
<p>However, I don&#8217;t think that matters. What&#8217;s absolutely needed is a change in the music industry, however that is brought about. As John Walker pointed out, artists are very very frequently ripped off.</p>
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		<title>By: John Walker</title>
		<link>http://www.chewingpixels.com/truth-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-34321</link>
		<dc:creator>John Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:50:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chewingpixels.com/?p=2351#comment-34321</guid>
		<description>There is one tremendous mistake in your piece. You write,

&quot;an effort to guard their livelihoods and the livelihoods of their artists&quot;

The music industry has never, and will never, have any interest in protecting the livelihoods of their artists. There are of course countless examples of this, but the best essay remains Steve Albini&#039;s fantastic piece from the early 90s.

http://www.negativland.com/albini.html

It has dated, of course, but the facts remain the same.

When having this discussion, it is far too tempting to believe one is taking the middleground by being suspicious of the claims of those supporting P2P as they seem so extreme, but not investigate the claims of the Big 4, who are annually fined for blackmail, price fixing and price gouging, and who regularly bankrupt their artists.

The middleground is pretty hard to find in this debate, but I think it&#039;s interesting to note that one side is willingly telling the truth about how they break the law and why, and the other side is regularly caught lying and using deception to continue their illegal business practises.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is one tremendous mistake in your piece. You write,</p>
<p>&#8220;an effort to guard their livelihoods and the livelihoods of their artists&#8221;</p>
<p>The music industry has never, and will never, have any interest in protecting the livelihoods of their artists. There are of course countless examples of this, but the best essay remains Steve Albini&#8217;s fantastic piece from the early 90s.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.negativland.com/albini.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.negativland.com/albini.html</a></p>
<p>It has dated, of course, but the facts remain the same.</p>
<p>When having this discussion, it is far too tempting to believe one is taking the middleground by being suspicious of the claims of those supporting P2P as they seem so extreme, but not investigate the claims of the Big 4, who are annually fined for blackmail, price fixing and price gouging, and who regularly bankrupt their artists.</p>
<p>The middleground is pretty hard to find in this debate, but I think it&#8217;s interesting to note that one side is willingly telling the truth about how they break the law and why, and the other side is regularly caught lying and using deception to continue their illegal business practises.</p>
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